Rev. Webber on Eastern Orthodoxy Today

There are two things I hear often about the Eastern Orthodox, especially from my fellow Lutherans. The first is that the current Orthodox church is not the same as the ancient one. The comment is usually made that the current Orthodox liturgy is not the same as the original.

The second thing I hear is that the Orthodox in the home countries are not at all like the Orthodox (especially the converts) you meet in America.

Perry Robinson addresses both of these topics in his response to the Issues Etc. interview with Rev. Webber. In regards to the Orthodox liturgy, Perry states:

"Then Webber alleges that the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom has been so altered as to not be recognizable by its author. In fact while it has been shorted in some places and some prayers and hymns for example were added under Justinian, its fundamental content and structure has remained the same. So much so that anyone familiar with the original would just find Webber’s laughable. And then of course he gives the parting shot that the liturgy is meant to evoke a “mystical feeling” and preaching is diminished."

In regards to the comments about the Orthodox in the home countries, Perry states:

"Then he charges that in the home countries most Orthodox are superstitious, ignorant, etc. This is probably true in many cases, but that says little about the truth of Orthodoxy any more than a similar situation in Germany or the US indicates the falsity of Lutheranism. Is this the standard he really wishes to be applied to Lutheranism as well? The spiritual health of Germany, which is nearing legalizing incest if it hasn’t already, isn’t exactly stellar. How many Germans are now to be taken seriously as professing Lutherans? Obviously not enough to repopulate the country. And when we look to the US, American Lutherans are by and large functionally Pelagian. Barna polls indicate that a majority of Lutherans think you get to heaven by good works and by “being a good person.” Only about 21% think that one is saved apart from good works. I can go through the average local LCMS parish and start asking basic questions about Trinitarianism and Christology and we all know what that will reveal. Besides, no one said that the Orthodox Church made every member into an academic theologian. But wasn’t putting the Bible into the hands of every Christian and making his conscience the judge applying the rule of Scripture supposed to have better results than that?"

Rev. Webber and the Iconostasis

Energetic Procession offers a response to the Issues Etc. three-part series on Eastern Orthodoxy.

In the "Orthodoxy Today" interview, Rev. Webber offers a typical Lutheran argument against the Iconostasis.

I focused a lot on the inconscreen during my first visit last year to an Orthodox church. I had read many Lutheran critiques, most similar to Pr. Webber’s in the “Orthodoxy Today” interview, and was curious about the history and reason behind such a structure.

Perry Robinson, in his response to Pr. Webber’s interview on Issues Etc., offers an explanation for the Inconscreen. He states:

"Next Webber takes a shot at the iconostasis as a kind of great wall or barrier between God and the people. But this is a mistake for many reasons. First, initially the iconscreens were much smaller. They served a variety of purposes historically. In some churches underground it served the practical purpose of a little fence to keeping dogs from urinating on the altar. More directly, it grew out of the practice of Christians placing relics and pictures of martyrs near and around the altar. This was eventually standardized to include prototypes of martyrdom and the faith, the chief martyr being Christ. The ecclesiastical use was in part as “looking out” at those approaching for the eucharist as a reminder of who they were facing, to take it in seriousness and to ward off those who had not prepared themselves or those who feigned belief. Furthermore, the iconostasis does not function in the same way that the barrier in the temple functioned in the Holy of Holies since there is a clear and open entry way through the royal doors indicating that the way to God has been opened in Christ. This is why the priest alone is permitted to pass through them while the deacons and attending servers enter through the deacon-doors. The iconostasis also represents the Trinitarian processions out into creation and the divine return. Hence it manifests the distinction between the theologia and the economia. Added to this is the fact that most Lutheran churches retain some form of barrier around the altar, in some cases, particularly in Europe a roodscreen."

Issues Etc. series on Eastern Orthodoxy

Rev. Wilken recently interviewed Rev. David Jay Webber on Issues Etc. Eastern Orthodoxy was the focus of the interviews.

Below are the three interviews. A future blog post will focus on an Eastern Orthodoxy response to the interviews.

Eastern Orthodoxy: Strengths & Weaknesses



Eastern Orthodoxy Today



The Pelagian Controversy